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Naomi Mc, Gendered Stereotypes, and Obvious Questions Nobody Asks About Oral Sex and Body Scent

Fri, 2009-12-11 11:34 — figleaf


Photo by Flickr user digital-anger. Used under a Creative Commons license.

Summary: Naomi Mc rocks and so does her blog; genital odor as gender Rorschach.

I just stumbled across Naomi Mc’s provocatively-named blog about the sociology, politics, and science of (would it be redundant to say gendered?) reproductive health, Vagina Dentata. It’s hard describing how I feel reading her posts — it’s some kind of combination of familiarity, amusement, envy, awe, delight, and recognition you might feel upon meeting a long-lost cousin. To put it as weirdly as possibly my blog wants to go to a family reunion with hers. Anyway, she’s pointed, thoughtful, irascible, creative as hell, has an amazingly dry wit, and I highly recommend her blog.

Anyway, while discussing the stupid vaginal breath-mints business that cropped up in advertisements last week Vagina Dentatashe thoughtfully (and earthily) addresses the usual reservations and then drops a nifty gender bombshell.

There is nothing peculiarly smelly about women’s bits. Any enclosed area that gets sweaty gets wiffy – male as well as female.

She said it here.

It’s a killer point. It’s not that vulvas smell, it’s that genitals smell. As do armpits. And feet. So does hair. So does breath. So does behind a lot of people’s ears. In particular vulvas smell, yes, but so do men’s (ok, no vulva-like word for the combination so…) penises, testicles, and perineums. And yes, the 12% of the worldwide population represented by 96% of all research (credit to Mc) are inclined to lament body smells in general…

But in the narrow spectrum of “intimate” aromas it seems neither accurate nor fair to single out one gender’s bits over the other. Predictable, yes, for half a dozen reasons. Fair or accurate, though, no.

Despite occasional, mostly lockerroom references to “smells like balls in here” and maybe “dick breath” there’s just not as much acknowledgment of just how much men can smell. For the same “any enclosed area that gets sweaty gets wiffy” reasons women do.

A couple of reasons come to mind (and you’re welcome to add your own in comments)

  • Until very recently men have overwhelmingly written, lectured, published, and otherwise controlled public discourse about sex in general and body smells in particular.
  • If 90-96% of the male population is heterosexual then most of any discourse about partner’s smells are going to be about vulvas.
  • If 10-15% of the population has at least one lifetime close encounter with same-sex genitals, until extremely recently they’ve been under considerable pressure to keep quiet about it.
  • As several bloggers have mentioned this week, going back at least as far as Leviticus (call it 4,000 years) women have been considered unclean because they menstruate, with sometimes fantastic steps being taken to avoid contact. Since this makes about as much sense as the (Biblically) even more “unclean” practice of blended fiber in woven cloth (no poly-cotton for you “sayeth the LORD”) it seems likely that folks would make up all manner of reasons why that might be. And hey, maybe smell would be one of them. (Wow, do I sound like an Evolutionary Psychologist here or what? Where’s my invitation to blog for Psychology Today?)
  • As Twisty Faster, James Dobson, your average MRA, and all perpetuators of the no-sex class’s Rule #2 all “know,” women never get their noses anywhere near male genitals (or at least shouldn’t) so they wouldn’t know.
  • And as Twisty Faster, James Dobson, and your average MRA will tell you, if a woman does get their noses anywhere near male genitals they better not like it.
  • And whether women like it or not they’d darn-tootin’ better not brag about it.
  • And finally, and most likely, men are aware that they smell, but don’t care because we have a WEIRD (i.e. Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic, credit Mc again) cultural heritage of considering ourselves baseline neutral, the standard against which all other is measured… and women as the “other” in question.
  • Treatments for endemic-to-men “jock itch” are sold in the sports aisle in pharmacies instead of next to yeast-infection medication on the feminine “hygiene” aisle, so unlike yeast infections jock itch is all vigorous and healthy and not at all smelly.

Couple of other points:

First, you can’t even argue that “yeah, well women get them stinky yeast infections” without studiously avoiding the point visible in any corner pharmacy that for every over-the-counter creme or concoction for treating yeast infections there’s a corresponding nostrum for treating equally stinky “jock itch” fungal infections.

Second, as Mc puts it

This impacts on women’s health because if they always think that the pink clink stinks then they are less likely to notice changes which may signify infection or seek help and advice (similarly vibrator use actually increases sexual health). Plus being self-conscious of your wookie effects your enjoyment of oral sex which instead should be savoured.

The same can be said of men in reverse: there’s lots of residual messaging out there, including myriad anguished and often clichéd laments from men, that women don’t like giving blowjobs. Lacking self-consciousness, or indeed consciousness at all, that their balls can smell of yeast, fungus, stale urine, and perspiration this seeming mystery to men might be easily resolved with more diligent use of soap and water. Or perhaps the same (or maybe “manly” rebranded) wipes that are heavily marketed to self-conscious women.

Bottom line: pretty much any way you look at it the special emphasis on “smelly vaginas” is gendered out the (non-gender-specific) wazoo.

Fri, 2009-12-11 13:23 — colorlessblue (not verified) #permalink

I didn’t even know the concept of jock itch. I like special soaps for that area that have balanced pH not to disturb the health microbiota, but don’t worry about smell and don’t overwash (UNHEALTHY!). Once I bought the wrong soap by mistake and didn’t notice where it said “Specially designed to mask natural odors!!!” on the tube. I only opened it once before trashing. The soap’s fruity smell literally made me puke.

[Hi Blue. I know what you mean about mean about scented soaps. As for jock itch, while obviously not a lot of people talk about either that or yeast infections anecdotal evidence suggests that they’re at least in the same ballpark of frequency. Some people never get either, others have them constantly. —fl]

Fri, 2009-12-11 20:51 — tlt (not verified) #permalink

I read, or tried to read the PointlessBanter post, but I literally could not go any farther after I hit the phrase “stink ditch.” It’s not as if I’ve never read or heard expressions like that, but that one is just so….mean. It just goes to show that you don’t have to use profanity to say something really, really awful. And….why would you even want to get near something that you’d call by a name like that, let alone put any part of your body in it? How can you be that repelled by women’s bodies, yet want to have sex with them?

Also, every one of the commenters there thinks that those things can be flushed. It only says “DO NOT FLUSH” in four languages and in three places on the package. I was going to say something about how they’ll be quickly disabused of that notion when they have to deal with baby wipes one day, but they strike me as the kind of men who will change one diaper a week and expect a freakin’ medal and a parade for it.

[Yup. And you notice Mc almost gleefully echos a whole litany of those coarse euphemisms in her post. Which is kind of baffling to me considering how sex mad men are supposed to “innately” be. I’ve been brooding a post for a week or so based on an almost embarrassingly large review of porn images — one of the kind of surprising upshots being that for all the incredible emphasis on exposed vulvas and sundry fluids from semen to syrup there’s nevertheless an almost complete desert of actual, you know, vaginal fluids of any sort. Which, when you think about it, is even weirder. Mc’s post, and your comment, may finally get me off the dime on that. Thanks, Tlt. —fl]

Sat, 2009-12-12 00:38 — Red (not verified) #permalink
Little acknowledgment of how much men can smell? Of course, anyone who has ever lived with men damn sure knows how stinky guys are. WHEEWWW!

If it isn’t proof that sexual orientation is innate, that most women still keep living with and sleeping with you despite the copious overpowering BO, I don’t know what is.

Just kidding, just kidding. Most of the men I’ve lived with had good personal hygeine. But in my life most of the stereotypes I’ve heard claimed that men were dirtier. That they wash themselves well anywhere but especially around their genitals and bottoms. That some didn’t change their clothes regularly. That they have no compunction about farting around people and more hackneyed stereotypes of that nature. Although some people may resemble certain stereotypes by chance-for example my brothers’ college roommates were pretty disgusting. Although now that I think of it much of the joking and discourse on male stink tends to be on the feet. And hey! We know what the feet are often a metaphor for don’t we? Wink, wink, wink

[Dirtier overall, yes, and that setting of low expectation is part of the whole ignored downside of gender construction of men. And yes, lots of talk about men’s smelly feet. But no acknowledgment that men’s genitals might smell just as bad, and consequently, just as strongly as women’s are alleged to. Which is where more of that gender construction business comes in. Thanks, Red. —fl]

Sat, 2009-12-12 08:38 — Franz Faber (not verified) #permalink

Years ago there was an ad on TV for “a man’s soap”, with a name which I THINK included something about “Irish” (or maybe it was just the brogues of the two women featured in the ad). What always cracked me up was the almost tearful-joyous look on their faces and in the sound of their voices, exulting over some male friend’s use of the soap:

“He smells the way a man SHOULD smell —-”

“ —- CLEAN!”

[Wow, that’s funny, Franz. I’ve been brooding for a while on how male stereotypes instruct men’s behavior as much as predict it. (A problem with all stereotypes, yes, but one that’s ignored in men.) Anyway, since men are usually alleged to be big, hairy, and smelly (well, everywhere except below the belt) it’s nice to see that particular stereotype challenged. Even in that sort of over-the-top, wink-its-not-true way it sounds like the ad did it. Thanks! —fl]

Sun, 2009-12-13 00:20 — chingona (not verified) #permalink

Years ago I was in the Peace Corps in a rural part of Paraguay. At the health clinic in the next village over, there were two nurses, one male and one female. The woman would diagnose just about every woman that came through there was some sort of horrific vaginal infection based on the terrible odors and nasty discharges she thought she smelled and saw. The man overturned her on about 3/4 of the cases.

I asked him about it once, and he said, “Well, they walk miles to get here and wait for hours in the hot sun to be seen. Of course they’re going to have a smell. But it’s not an odor. She doesn’t know what normal is.”

I always thought that was … interesting, for lack of a better word. The male nurse had more formal education than the female nurse, but I wondered if his tolerant attitude came from being someone who had sex with women.

[Interesting story, Chingona. It sort of makes sense — not so much because he had hetero experience and/or interest but because he’d have had multiple exposure to partners in non-clinical settings. Something to remember, though, is that aversion and/or judgment about smell, and its association with uncleanliness, plus, sometimes, discrimination against women’s bodies, swings in all directions and not just one way. Thanks! —fl]

Sun, 2009-12-13 00:33 — chingona (not verified) #permalink

Oh, and I’m pretty sure the bit about being unclean when you menstruate predates Leviticus. Menstrual huts can be found in all sorts of cultures that didn’t have much contact with the Bible until modern times.

In a kind of interesting twist on menstruation and uncleanliness, in Paraguay the folk belief was that you shouldn’t bathe while you had your period – that it was very dangerous to get your body wet while you were bleeding. This belief was fading somewhat, but all the women I knew absolutely would not wash their hair while they were menstruating.

Whatever the specifics of the beliefs, it seems to boil down to women’s bodies are really weird and freaky and scary.

[OMG I know what you mean. What’s weird is that yeah, women’s bodies do even more “non-intuitive” things than men’s do, but if you actually spend time around women in non-segregated, non-it’s-taboo-don’t-even-look-at-yourself settings it’s not that mysterious at all. Thanks, Chingona. —fl]

Sun, 2009-12-13 19:18 — Kaija (not verified) #permalink

Interesting discussion and I agree that 99% of the “Ooo…use lots of products to make sure you don’t smell bad!” marketing is aimed at females, but in general, I think there’s a big difference between “need a shower” dirty smell, say after working in the garden, the gym, or several days of lounging around in the same pair of sweatpants and natural/normal body scent, which I like much better than overperfumed or artificial smelling soaps and deodorants that mask my partner’s innate scent…which I adore. Lots of science behind scent and attraction, and how masking scents may not be good for anyone but companies selling products.

I could pick out my partner from others in a dark room by smell alone and I like it so much, I’ve asked him to use neutral/unscented soaps and deodorants (and he complies in a mixture of amusement to pleasure to puzzlement by my request). :) As usual, the choice of two extremes is a false dichotomy. And from what I’ve heard from the guys, they aren’t fans of overperfumed females either…I guess all that biology is actually functional ;)

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