Pluralist of Feministing Community has a really cool post up about the near side of non-consensual “gray area” sex.
What makes it a great illustration is that the sexes were reversed! (Emphasis hers.)
Since November my best friend has been having relationship problems. She is cis and het as is her boyfriend and they’ve been a committed and monogamous relationship for about 4 years now. The whole story is too long to recount, but as of a week ago they began a “break they need in order to stay together”.
Suffice it to say the first two days were hellish as I talked to one of the loves my life breaking down over the phone. But during one of the more lucid moments, she told me that – among a lot of alleged grievances – she had (unknowingly) forced her boyfriend into sex.
Apparently he had said things along the lines of “I’m too tired right now, let’s just go to sleep” and she had continued to proposition him thinking “welll, this will help you sleep better!” My immediate reaction was that there was no way she had coerced or pressured him into sex. After all, he should’ve just said “No really, I don’t want to do this right now” if she kept at it. It was his fault for not stopping the encounter.
And then I realized that had this been a woman in his place – not to mention my best friend – I would never have given this consideration. I was victim-blaming, basing my assumptions in tropes of male hypersexuality and female passivity. She didn’t handcuff him to a heater and force-feed him viagra . She’s a nice girl, she couldn’t have done that!
I talk a lot more about the paradigmatic social assumptions that women belong to the “no-sex” class — sugar, spice, everything nice, sure, but also possessing no autonomous sexual agency. Unless they’re somehow “broken,” or “damaged goods.” I don’t talk so much about the other side, the equally strong assumption that men are the sex class — obligate, reflexive, indiscriminating, and single-mindedly ready for sex. Unless, again, there’s something wrong with them. But it’s just as big a deal.
Inside the dominant paradigm it’s as unheard of for a man to say “no” as for a woman to say “yes.” Inside the paradigm, with it’s bogus Two Rules of Desire, the ratchet of initiative alway clicks in one direction.
This too has its consequences. It doesn’t just assume women never mind not having sex, it also assumes men never mind having it. One consequence would be Pluralist’s friend assuming her partner was having a momentary brain fart or something therefore his “no” couldn’t possibly really mean no. So she kept trying.
As I said up at the top this is way over on the near side of the “gray area.” A little persistence, especially in a long-term relationship where one partner’s behavior is perhaps uncharacteristic, is an unfortunate failure to recognize that no means no, but not an appalling one.
That said, whereas it’s way over this way verging into “no harm then no foul” territory, as Pluralist hinted and one commenter stated very clearly, however mild-sounding the incident
Obviously, something went wrong in this particular case if the guy is bringing it up as a grievance.
Therefore not “no harm then no foul.”
So if her failure to acknowledge or respect his decision wasn’t appalling it wasn’t benign either.
So there’s definitely still something to talk about.
Pulling together several themes from the last couple of days, here’s in interesting post from last month by Amanda Hess of Washington City Paper about a mediated sexual assault on rapper Lil Wayne when he was 11 years old. She’s quoting from a movie about him where he’s telling a protégé nicknamed “Twist” about an incident his own mentor, nicknamed “Baby,” instigated. (Emphasis hers.)
Wayne tells Twist that Baby, Wayne’s father figure, was one of the men encouraging the woman to perform oral sex on him. “I’m a do you like Baby and them did me,” Wayne informs him.
After the documentary was filmed, Lil’ Wayne spoke about his childhood sexual assault again, in an appearance on Jimmy Kimmel’s show. Kimmel goaded Wayne into talking about “losing his virginity” at the age of 11. Then, Kimmel—along with, oddly, Charlie Gibson, who was also a guest on the show that night—teamed up to tease Wayne over the incident, which they presented as an impressive display of Wayne’s manhood. Except that this time, Wayne was no longer up for joking about the matter, and he finally explained to Kimmel that the experience was a negative one. It was also revealed that the woman who was being encouraged to “suck little Wayne’s little dick” was 14 years old.
After the Kimmel segment aired, Cara at the Curvature wrote an excellent piece about the cultural tendency to respond to sexual assaults against males by recasting the assault as a positive sexual experience for the victim…
Quick note, Cara’s post at the Curvature really is a great one, as is a post from Sociological Images that inspired her.
Anyway, Hess concludes with
When sexual assault against males is excused as a joke or even held up as a badge of honor, that doesn’t just work to erase victims after the fact. This attitude directly causes sexual assaults. Twist is told he needs to have sex whether he wants to or not, just like Wayne did before him.
Yikes!
Here’s a handful of ideas we probably need to spend a little more time thinking about… and encouraging others to think about as well.
and finally
Something else to consider: as adults it sure seems like a lot of us have a general sense of amnesia and/or avoidance of memories of that part our lives. Nevertheless it seems to be a pretty formative period where a huge number of general social assumptions are put into practice. Those of us with children, at least, and really I think everyone who plans to live among peers who are even slightly younger than we are need to reassess our own experiences and, where possible, see if we can provide more structure for children in, especially, their very early adolescence.
Jezebel of Evil Slutopia quotes right-wing troll Glenn Beck who, after deciding it’s not enough to slander his own partner, three daughters, plus the remaining 51% of the population decides to slander men as well. (Their source is from Beck and a colleague discussing Scott Brown’s victory speech.)
GLENN: Guys you can figure out: Food, sex. That’s it.
STU: Two step process.
GLENN: It really is. Feed me, make love to me, let me sleep.
STU: Sleep, yeah. That would be the third, sleep.
GLENN: Come on.
STU: That’s pretty much the bottom line.
Actually, technically, what Beck and his broadcast partner are doing is setting an expectation for men: anything besides sex and food should be irrelevant to us or, being a little more specific, everything else a man might want should be secondary. Dispensable. Defer-able.
Note also the expectations he sets: the main things men need “Feed me, make love to me” must be given to him. He can’t do them himself!
Given by or… maybe with a diamond, maybe with a couple of roofies… gotten from someone.
And given Beck’s presumption that all men are heterosexual who, exactly, is he expecting to “feed me, make love to me, let me sleep?” Women, or as he puts it, “psychos.” Who just don’t understand that all they should bother men with are feeding him, fucking him, and letting him sleep.
Yeah, that would make me psycho too. I fear for his little girls. Not because he’ll expect them to feed him and fuck him. But because he’s saying he’ll give them absolutely no support… and just tell them they’re psychos… if when they’re older they want more from a partner than someone to feed or fuck to sleep.
Listen, flipping male flatworms want more out of life than food and sex and all they’ve got is primitive notochords, but Beck is adamant that’s all men want?
Round-y side of the spoon down when you try to eat soup, dude.
Hugo Schwyzer says
The blogosphere and the mainstream media have … had much to say about the Pew study released Tuesday that shows that more than ever before, men are likely to marry women with more education and earning potential than they themselves have. From the Times story:
“Men now are increasingly likely to marry wives with more education and income than they have, and the reverse is true for women,” said Paul Fucito, spokesman for the Pew Center. “In recent decades, with the rise of well-paid working wives, the economic gains of marriage have been a greater benefit for men.”
The analysis examines Americans 30 to 44 years old, the first generation in which more women than men have college degrees. Women’s earnings have been increasing faster than men’s since the 1970s.
Seems to me that part of the effect would just naturally follow from an equalization in earning rates and earnings potential. Past a certain point it just doesn’t make sense that on the one hand earnings would be approaching parity but on the other people would still be scrambling to find men who earned more than women.
I mean, yeah, I strongly suspect that urge is still there. (You can actually sort of see that effect where, for whatever reason, men in relationshps tend to be, say, taller or older than their women partners even though in aggregate there’s obviously substantially more overlap in men’s and women’s heights and ages. And I’m certainly aware of individuals who won’t consider a woman partner who earns more or, in a couple of cases even more emphatically, women who won’t consider a partner who earns less. Preference has a strong pull. And I’m guessing that’s partly why why the marriage numbers aren’t already closer to aggregate earnings ratios.
Still, past a certain point a lot of marriage-inclined heterosexuals are going to have to, well, “settle” for relationships where close to 50% of the time the woman earns as much as or more than the man. Not that that’s the end of the world — 50% of men would by-definition also be earning the same as or more than the woman.
Or am I missing something here?
The best thing from my perspective would be that since women who have children still spend some time out of the workforce (in my experience three months for the rarely mentioned “fourth trimester” isn’t unreasonable) and therefore put some fraction of their earnings potential on hold (at least till we get solid progressive family leave policies) then it makes sense that women ought to at least start out with higher incomes. (It makes sense that their partners would also support that.)
The advantages are considerable: there’s be no particular intra-family earnings imbalance due to children, there’s be no strong incentive for the partner who stayed at home with the first child to stay at home with the next, etc. And if the family did decide to go the “traditional” avenue where the woman stays home with succeeding children she’d still have an easier path towards reaching income parity when she chooses to return to the workforce.
Yeah, it doesn’t have to be that way As we see in parts of Scandinavia for instance a really strong public/private/family network can be pretty powerful. But at least for now it is that way. And so a trend towards women earning more, at least initially, at least in theory, ought to support more egalitarian — and therefore stronger — long-term relationships.
Over time people are going to stop hauling out traditionalist “silver linings” the way the article Hugo cite does, and instead start noticing that the end results are more egalitarian. I’m guessing it’ll take one more generation but I’m pretty sure we’ll see the first articles discovering the virtues before then.
—-
One other thing, by the way. The article Hugo quotes in turn quotes political economist Stephanie Coontz
“We’ve known for some time that men need marriage more than women from the standpoint of physical and mental well-being,” said Stephanie Coontz, a professor at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Wash., and research director for the Council on Contemporary Families, a research and advocacy group. “Now it is becoming increasingly important to their economic well-being as well.”
I’m… kind of curious whether the well-documented tendency for married men to be healthier and happier in marriage than women is an artifact of them having what amounts to a stay-at-home personal caregiver. And consequently I’ll be curious if those numbers hold up when divisions of labor equalize inside as well as outside the home. My intuition would be yes. Although based on personal experience and those I’ve seen of other relationships with lower-earning and stay-at-home dads is that their partners really are going to have to give up the traditional and/or “second shift” notions about who establishes and enforces domestic standards and practices. Also based on experience this will have a lot more to do with when working women stop being judged by themselves and others on domestic decor, schedules, etc., even when it’s very, very clear it’s not their responsibility. (For instance how often are working men judged personally when their stay-at-home partner doesn’t iron the sheets?)
Flitter of My Precious Midlife Crisis collides with Rule Number One (emphasis mine.)
How to Become Invisible in Your Marriage Counseling
Say you want satisfying sex. Watch hubby and male therapist go carefully blank for a moment while you go on to the next thing on your list of things you want out of your marriage.
I’ve brought up the sex thing a couple times in our first couple sessions, and hubby and therapist won’t touch it with a ten foot pole. I can’t help but wonder how things would be if it was hubby complaining about the sex. Sex seems to me like an important part of marriage. Even if you’re not having sex, both partners should be on the same page and happy with that arrangement. If both partners are struggling with frequency, or more importantly in my mind, how satisfactory the sex is when it does happen— well, who else are you gonna snog? Shouldn’t you be trying to make that happen inside your marriage? Even if you have an open marriage and you’re both open to other partners, that shouldn’t be something you seek out because sex with your spouse is distasteful.
Can’t remember the source now but even I was startled to read that more than half of all heterosexual couple’s decisions to go to sex therapists over problems with a partner’s libido are initiated by the woman.
I don’t know why I’m surprised, though. I noticed early on that more than half the blogs where the author is disappointed about a partner’s low libido and/or general lack of attentiveness are written by women.
And yet we “know” women have lower libidos than men. We “know” men “need” prostitutes because their wives just can’t keep up. We “know” women would rather just sit around talking about their feelings and baking bread or something.
What if the much-mocked and often dreaded “feelings” women wanted to talk about were about sexual desire?
What’s especially frustrating is how likely it is that men’s belief in rule number two is just as responsible as our belief (against so much evidence) in rule number one.
—-
That rule number two business is especially ironic when you consider, for instance, this post by Hugo Schwyzer.
Following up on my previous post about problems with blaming the victim: You might have noticed that throughout the post it looked like I was assuming all rape and sexual assaults are committed by men.
Actually, no, I’m not making that assumption at all — if for no other reason then because when I was roughly pre-school age I was physically sexually assaulted by a roughly middle-school aged girl. (And, of course, there are plenty of other reasons.) I also wasn’t making that assumption even the vast preponderance of sexual assaults really actually happen to be perpetrated by men. I wasn’t even making an assumption because narratives about male predation are even more prevalent than actual male predation.
Nope. I made the calculated decision to speak about men in the context of “she asked for it” victim blaming because…
you ready?...
When a woman sexually assaults or rapes someone — a man, another woman, a child, whatever, you know what they don’t say?
They don’t say “well, the victim was asking for it.”
They don’t say “well, she just couldn’t help herself.”
You know, the way they do when a man sexually assaults or rapes someone.
What do they say instead when a woman does it? That she’s mentally ill? That she’s traumatized from her own abuse (as, incidentally, I strongly suspect was the case with the girl who assaulted me.) That, in other words, she was broken, damaged, crazy, or otherwise not an otherwise perfectly normal person who’s hormones just got away from her in the face of irresistable provocation.
In other words when a woman does it there’s never any question about who’s at fault. No question that she deliberated, made a decision, and then acted on that decision. No question that it’s the assailant’s fault and not her victim.
Yes, yes, if you thought about that for very long you notice the bitter irony that whether as victim or assailant rape is always held that the woman is at fault. Believe me that hasn’t escaped me but while it’s not a small issue it’s one that’s heavily dependent on the main point of this post:
Notice how the characterizations of women perpetrators do not mitigate the assumptions about men’s inherent weakness and sub-human dependability and responsibility inherent in the standard “blame the victim” scripts mentioned in the preceding post: in one important regard women are held responsible for their victimization because men aren’t expected to be responsible in the first place.
And, once again, they say feminists hate men!
Robot-Heart has a cool post that gets back to problem with the whole “myth of male weakness“ ideology
“Left to my own devices, I never would have been raped. The rapist was really the key component to the whole thing. I was sober; I was wearing sweatpants and an oversized t-shirt; I was at home; my sexual history was, literally, nonexistent—I was a virgin; I struggled; I said no. There have been times since when I have been walking home, alone, after a few drinks, wearing something that might have shown a bit of leg or cleavage, and I wasn’t raped. The difference was not in what I was doing. The difference was the presence of a rapist.”
It bears repeating.
I don’t understand the contortions of logic people go through to find reasons why a rape victim is at fault for some other person raping them.
You know what is logical? Blaming the person who decides to rape someone else.
Once again, the problem with blaming the victim (she must have known that sitting at home in sweatpants watching a movie was asking for it!!!!) isn’t that it absolves the assailant(s) it’s a declaration that men are weak, impulsive, hormonal, dictated to by their organs of reproduction, undisciplined, infantile, base, and governed by their animal nature and an overwhelming, instinctive drive to inseminate.
You know what it is? (You’re not going to like it.) It’s saying that rapists are indistinguishable from all other men. Which created an unholy uproar when Susan Brownmiller or Andrea Dworkin or Mary fucking Daly said it. But which passes not simply without comment but as conventional wisdom whenever someone says “well, she must have been asking for it” or “what did she expect?”
If you’re a man and you hear someone blaming a victim for rape why not take it as a personal slap in the face?
How about saying “no, she didn’t ask for fucking anything — a man who knew exactly what he was doing made the deliberate choice to rape someone he believed he could get the drop on under circumstances he calculated minimized the chance of being brought to justice.” I mean, seriously, every time someone blames the victim they’re letting the rapist slide on the low, low expectations their shitty attitude about men’s incapacity for responsibility creates.
To paraphrase The Elephant Man “men are not animals, they are human beings.” And like all human beings men deliberate, decide, and then act. When anyone gets raped it’s because someone deliberated raping them, decided to rape them, and then acted on their decision to rape them.
Remember: it’s not feminists who believe in blaming the victim. Consequently its not feminists who can be held accountable for society’s predators-from-the-sewers narratives about men.
Clearing out a backlog of un-posted drafts I ran across this snippet. I’d gotten stalled on it back in November, mainly, I think, because I’d been missing the most obvious point: misogynists also thoroughly despise men!
Jill Filopovic of Feministe gets to the crux of the problem with columnist Chris Surette’s, um, fascinating piece in the Fairfield University “Mirror.” Surette thinks a partner’s “walk of shame” is a feature of sex, not a bug, and in his opinion the greater the partner’s shame the better for the man “responsible.”
The point of Chris Surette’s column is that men bond over sexually humiliating women, and it’s a “victory” when everyone else sees your “victim” doing the walk of shame back to her dorm.
I’m pretty sure we don’t use words like “victim” to talk about women who engage in consensual sex.
Well, unless your head is buried so far up the ass of the bogus Two Rules of Desire you can’t comprehend that the mere fact of having sex with you isn’t automatically humiliating
Rule #2, you’ll recall, is “It is simultaneously inconceivable and intolerable for a man to be sexually desired.”
—-
Y’know, they say feminists hate men, right? But what is this guy Surette and his demographic saying about men?!?!?!?
They say feminists are the ones making it hard for college-age men to get laid? Who’s doing more to police women’s sexual activity
I mean, seriously, the fact that someone like Surette is still walking around with a full set of teeth refutes at least one common stereotype about men solving their problems with violence. If I imagined myself a “Pickup-Artist” in the “Seduction Community” I’d think one way to improve the overall odds of getting laid would be to go all Mary Daly on anybody who sneers at women for… being actively heterosexual?!?
Hugo Schwyzer, expanding on my post about Julie Bindel’s research into customers of prostitutes says (emphasis his)
Many women who are uncomfortable with their male partners’ porn use (or visits to strip clubs, etc.) tell themselves (and concerned friends) that they’re grateful that their guys “don’t do anything worse.” Perhaps there are some who genuinely believe what the men in the Guardian study claim to believe: that prostitution provides a necessary sexual outlet for fellas whose supposedly insatiable needs cannot be met in any other way. This is the soft bigotry of low expectations writ large, with the twist that the most painful consequences affect those who hold these assumptions — rather than those about whom the expectations are held.
It’s worth noting that the two men quoted in the Bindel piece use the second and third person to describe what “you” or “a desperate man” might do. Perhaps this is a way of claiming cover under the myth of male weakness without risking the sobriquet of a potential rapist. On the other hand, perhaps these lads don’t use the first person because in their hearts, they know it isn’t true.
And of course it isn’t true! As Hugo nicely puts it, lust is not a catalyst for rape although anger is.*
And as Hugo points out, there’s a benefit (an unfortunately patriarchal one, incidentally) to men when they exploit the social expectation that we’re uncontrollable animals who’d drink out of toilets if the water didn’t get up their noses and who’d lick their butts if they could only reach them, and who’d have sex with thing that moved. (Or, more precisely anything that can’t move fast enough!)
The social downsides for men, however, are disproportionately large.
Anyway, Hugo closes with an interesting sentence that I’d like to riff on briefly.
Until we dismantle the narrative of uncontrollable male sexual desire we cannot build a just and safe world for all.
I’m going to go all radical and say the problem isn’t the narrative of uncontrollable male sexual desire. It’s the narrative of men’s sexual desire period! Because there is no narrative of men’s sexual desire that’s anything other than “uncontrollable.” Just as there’s no narrative of women’s sexual desire as anything but a) non-existent, b) broken, damaged, “wild,” or “crazy.” Oh, or c) displaced into desire for “closeness” or “procreation.”
In other words the narrative of men’s and women’s sexuality is almost nonexistent outside the dominant paradigm of men as the obligate and reflexive “sex class” and women as the disinterested and unmotivated no-sex class.
I agree absolutely with Hugo that until we subvert that dominant paradigm we can’t begin to build a just and safe world for all.
* Assertion of privilege would be another big catalyst that I’d argue is distinct from anger.)
In comments over at FeministCritics, where I’ve been trying to explain why I think skepticism about feminism is way, way, way less important that skepticism about mainstream anti-feminism ought to be, typhonblue said
My problem with feminism is where it doesn’t challenge ‘patriarchial’ notions of male disposability, responsibility and moral inferiority. Additionally, it’s very obvious to me that ‘patriarchal’ notions of male disposability lead to a situations in which a woman is valued far, far, far more for her femaleness then her personhood; which I find profoundly offensive.
...
I also find the notion of ‘patriarchy’ incoherent.
Maybe it’s just me but I think the notion of patriarchy is actually pretty straightforward. Here’s what I think it means (or at least where it came from) and how I think both the ideas of women’s value as property and men’s disposability come from values handed down from that system.
Formal political capital-p Patriarchy was and in some places still is the organization of society into extended multi-generational families, “houses,” or clans. Inside that system the extended family is held to be more important than any member in it. Except, maybe, whoever was the titular head. (Though even then it’s presumed their privilege comes from the decisions they make on behalf of the family.) That the heads of those houses were almost always men isn’t as important as the fact that they were the most senior relative in their particular branch of their family. They were more likely to be grandfathers or, occasionally, grandmothers of extended families than fathers or mothers of contemporary nuclear families.
Under political/economic patriarchy alliances are made through marriage — the idea being that if your children are married and, more important, their children are both descendants of the respective household heads, then betrayal would be literally an abandonment of one’s own flesh and blood.
Technically under patriarchy children of both sexes are “given” in marriage to form alliances with other houses. In theory (and often in practice) subordinate family members were given no more real say in who they were to marry than a suitcase full of money or a deed to piece of property would be.
In practice, though, women family members were often given in marriage to particularly “worthy” male outsiders — soldiers, say, or wealthy individuals. The stereotypical example of the latter would be when a king announced his daughter’s hand in marriage to whoever won a major tournament. (Or, in mythology, slew a dragon.) In other words it was possible for an ambitious or particularly infatuated man to “earn” a desired woman (or at least an alliance to her family) by pleasing her father and family interest.
And if the striving man dies in battle? Well, that’s male disposability for you — the king gives his daughter to the guy (possibly even the enemy who killed the first guy) and even though the first guy is dead and the daughter has to put out for and have offspring by some guy she has no interest in (and in the case of war might not even speak the same language as) the family, and its leader, come out ahead.
While that sort of formal organization isn’t as major as it once was you can still see it in operation of it in, say, the polygamy of the FLDS where wives are used as a way to accumulate property and/or influence and where marriage is denied to “excommunicated” men and boys. You can also hear about it from time to time in Afghanistan when “clan leaders” a.k.a. family heads settle violent disputes by “giving” female family members to rival families.
So that’s patriarchy: a hierarchical system in which both individual men’s and women’s interests… and even their physical bodies… may be sacrificed for the “good” of the family or community. It makes (nearly all) men disposable, reduces women to the desirability and utility of their bodies, uses access to sex as a way to reward men for earning or to punish men by withholding all while treating women’s desire and preferences as a really annoying interference. Oh, and it makes marriage a financial transaction where, generally, the man brings in wealth or at least productivity and the woman brings sex and, for extra credit, childcare and domestic labor.
You can see how under that system
You can also see how under a system like that
With minor variations items #1 and #2 encompass almost all of “mainstream” feminism. Substitute “any woman or man or any age, race, class, or body” any time you see the words “woman” or “man” in clauses #1 and #2 and you’re got an emerging consensus in feminism. Of which I’m very comfortable considering myself a part: I have a brain and I think the system’s fucked up and I don’t want any part of it and I get pretty exasperated whenever men, and women, keep falling into the sucker roles the system wants to assign them.